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Market Dynamics and Police Resources: A Lesson for Monrovia
By Robert C.J. Parry | May 8, 2008
At Tuesday night’s City Council meeting, a well known, tremendously active member of the community asserted, basically, if Monrovia’s police officers don’t like their pay, they can just go somewhere else. “I’m sure we’ll have no trouble finding qualified police officers.”
If only that were true. Fact is, every police department in Southern California is hurting for officers. The LAPD’s recent hiring splurge has increased demand, without an increase in supply. If you know markets, that means the price for a cop’s service is going up. And, Monrovia ain’t willing to pay.
What is the price of not being willing to pay for a cop? Well, an example has played out just on the other side of the 605. According to the Tribune El Monte PD Lieutenant Ken Alva just turned down the job of Chief of Police in Baldwin Park. Why? Well, he could make more money as an El Monte Lieutenant.
That’s right, he turned down a prestigious TWO-STEP promotion because of pay issues. Now, BPPD has, indeed, identified a new, candidate from within its own ranks. But, fully qualified and best qualified are not the same thing. For example, the new candidate apparently didn’t even apply for the job with Alva because she felt herself unqualified for the job.
This should be instructive to the Monrovia City Council, and its supporters, on two levels: First, lots of people pass the police academy, and they serve with dedication. But just because they got by and got through doesn’t mean they are the guy you want coming to your house with a gun at 2:00 a.m.
It’s the police version of the old joke: What do you call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school? Doctor! What do you call the guy who graduates last from the academy? Officer.
Consider this: While MPD has dozens of great cops, not long ago Chief Johnson was forced to terminate several officers for various indiscretions. The number fired in that one shot exceeded the total number I saw fired in the four years I covered the West Covina PD, a much larger, much better paid agency. Would better pay have kept them in line? Not likely? Might it have attracted better candidates who would have stayed out of trouble to begin with? That’s a tougher question, with no easy answers.
However, a point of illustration can be found herein: Azusa PD, the best paying department in the Valley, has no vacancies and an abundance of applications from both lateral (current offficers) and pre-service (academy) applications. MPD, by contrast, has a number of vacancies.
The second point of instruction is this: The Council’s plan to open MPD promotions to officers from outside agencies will utterly fail. If a lieutenant won’t take a pay cut for a Chief’s job, what makes them think a patrol officer will take one to jump to an Agent (senior officer) position for a pay cut, or, at best, minor increase.
So, yes, MPD might be able to get “fully qualified” police officers. Of course, one must wonder what the Council defines as fully qualified, since they have yet to disavow the $15/hour security guard theory that emanated from Adams & Barnes Escrow.
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Topics: Main Page, City Council, Cops and Robbers, Monrovia |
May 8th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
The trouble with government is that they have never really been affected by Market Dynamics until recently. They always operated in a vacuum of tax more when you run low. Then along came ballot enforced reform that said no you can’t raise our taxes or impose new taxes unless we allow you to.
The new rules haven’t really sunk in yet. This is demonstrated by the number of bankrupt and close to bankrupt agencies in California. They continue to operate in their vacuum.
They assist the electorate who are willing to go along with there fiscal stupidity to remain in office.
The fiscal stupidity is beginning to backfire on them with these bankruptcies because they are loosing their jobs and some of those sweetheart retirement benefits.
The community is the biggest looser in all of this ultimately with reduced services in all sectors.
Our city like many others is top heavy with management, middle management and positions that were long ago outsourced in the private sector. These positions were created to elevate the importance of those in charge and build bigger departments for them to receive more pay and prestige to manage, it’s the old bureaucratic way that use to work but is now bankrupting agencies.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Monrovia PD had 5 applicants for a vacant Sergeant position. All five passed the test. Now the City is saying that they may bring someone in from an outside agency to fill the position. This is almost unheard of in this field. Many administrative positions can be filled by outside agencies when the experience is there. But not sergeant. City Hall is really tring to kill morale in the PD
May 8th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Thank you both for keeping the focus on police. Everybody seems to be rallying around the sexier IP issue.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:28 am
If the market goes the other way, if there are more people willing to go into police work, should we lower their pay? If we can get a fireman with lower pay should we fire the ones we have? If we can outsource jobs to China because they are paid less should we do it? Market driven forces work for big companies but are we better because of them? There was a time we treated people fair regardless of where the “market” was. I guess what we should do is each year see if we can get people cheaper and let the ones we have decide to take less pay or letr them go and hire the cheaper ones. That, Mr. Parry, will make Monrovia a better place.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Bad Boy/Tom/Hay, that’s a great idea. It’s about time you made a substantive comment, instead of joking about Dan Verna being shot.
Let’s just treat people fair. How about we start by paying our police officers at the average of local cities - measured by what they take home?
May 9th, 2008 at 7:51 am
That was exactly the message Mayor Hammond sent when he told the MPOA that the Council has resigned themselves to the fact that Monrovia is a training ground and anyone with more than 5 years on is an “oddity”. You get what you pay for…
May 9th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Oaky, you have caught me, I am Tom Adams. As for market, what do you call the sergeant who passes the test at the bottom of the ranking from another city, if you can pay him less that Monrovia you call him Sergeant. Fair doesn’t enter into market equations. Fair and market are totally different. Parry gets confused thinking he can talk market and then ask for fair. If the market allows Monrovia to pay less think of the money it can save and maybe even lower taxes. As for post #6, I think I see a lot of old cops out there so someone must be staying longer than 5 years. I guess what you are saying is that the older cops are odd?
May 9th, 2008 at 8:41 am
So explain to me then why it was so important to give the City Manager an extra $275,000. Surely we could have had a CM without tht expense, right? Heck, we already had him. Why throw an extra quarter-million at him? That’s money we’ll not see back for a long time, if ever.
You are quite right, fair does not enter into market equations. But if you pay less, you end up on the wrong side of the demand curve. That’s just fundemental economics. High school stuff.
Moreover fair does enter into leadership equations. In fact, it’s a primary factor in leadership: “What’s fair to those I’m leading.” I think that’s a nugget of the Rotary Four-Way Test, no? “Is it fair to all concerned?”
Failure to address that question is why we are in this mess: An abject failure of leadership. If the City truly does not have the money to pay a fair salary at this time, there are ways to work toward compromise. Refusing to acknowledge the disparity is not one. Fabricating numbers to justify an unjust position just makes things worse.
Don’t sit there and say “our cops are paid above average” when their checks are below average, and expect them to take it lying.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:56 am
There is another “market dynamic” that I have thought about while peeking in on this Monrovia PD debate. That billboard on the freeway must certainly be doing damage to real estate values in an already challenging real estate market.
I’m no expert, but could the citizens of Monrovia file a class action lawsuit against the MPOA for diminution of property values because of that billboard? For instance, a buyer is in escrow to purchase a home in Monrovia. They drive past the billboard and cancel the escrow because of the billboard. The seller has then been damaged.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Nope. You can’t be sued for saying the truth.
That’s an absolute defense in libel and slander cases.
Perhaps the seller should ask the City Council what they plan to do about the facts on the billboard, not the board itself.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Damn Laurel! Free speech restrictions should be considered because of the effect certain kinds of communication might have on real estate values?
Whew. All I can say is thank God for the Bill of Rights.
Shouldn’t you folks down as City Hall be working on those long overdue audits rather than jackassing around on blogs?
May 9th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Ms. Ulrich the CITY has exacerbated this problem without foresight to property values. The increase in crime speaks for itself.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:17 am
They are paid in the six figures and the audits aren’t on time? How much have they paid in penalties?
May 9th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I agree #9. This is a concern I have also. However, anyone can sue for anything. Whether or not the plaintiff wins is another story but that is usually after many thousands of dollars and time spent in defending such an action.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:27 am
The only issue I’m discussing is the billboard as it relates to property value, nothing else. The MPOA may have very valid points, but that is not what I am asking.
I’m curious, the billboard states, “Higher Violent Crime” and “Fewer Officers Patroling.” My question is higher violent crime, than what other comparable city? Fewer officers patrolling than what other comparable city?
May 9th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Higher crime than Monrovia in past years, fewer officers than Monrovia in past years.
And, again, the property value question is irrelevant.
If you’re selling someone your house, and your neighbor walks over and says to the customer, “oh, by the way, the roof leaks and she always complains about it,” you have no grounds for a suit. The neighbor merely prevented you from defrauding the customer.
If someone’s real estate deal blows up in Mayberry because the cops tell the truth, that’s not the truth teller’s fault. The seller should have informed the buyer of the problem.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Adams & Barnes has some ’splaining to do then!
May 9th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I have one question that begs to be answered. Mr. Perry, besides stirring up the pot, what do you contibute to Monroovia. What is it that you do that makes Monrovia a better place. How do you participate. Do we thank you and congratulate you for making unfounded and unsubstantiated comments against someone who spends his time trying to make Monrovia a better place. Yes, let’s go after the volunteers and the cheerleaders who make Monrovia work and thrive. I hope that you can direct your energy to a more positive building endeavor as opposed to one that accuses without real proof.
May 9th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Mr. Parry has done an invaluable service in trying to improve public safety for all Monrovians. A demoralized and gutted police department will not benefit the citizens in any way. The pot was stirred by city hall, in the propaganda issued by the city manager in the form of a weekly report. The pot was stirred by somebody working in Tom Adams’ office. The pot was stirred by the mayor, who suggested recall or initiative to solve police contract issues.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Well, Concerned Monrovian, thanks for making your own unsubstantiated accusations. I’ll be happy to meet you on Saturday to review the substance and foundation of what I said. How’s 9:00 am at the Coffee Bean on Myrtle?
Now, to answer your question: I devote one weekend a month, often more, to serving my country. I have led the VFW to becoming more active in the community, sometimes kicking and screaming. But we’ve been at the street fair for the first time in forever. I’ve been the keynote speaker at Memorial Day.
My wife and I have organized our neighborhood (not just regarding the speeding issue) and several other streets have looked to us as a model.
Regardless of any of this, frankly, what does it matter? I’m a citizen of this City. Whether I live on the streets or own a mansion in the hills, attend all civic events or just sleep here, I have a right to express my views.
That you are undisturbed by the venom Hay/Bad Boy/Tom (Edwards) has directed at our cops says more about you than anything I’ve posted says about me.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Mr. Parry, not to disagree with your overall comments posted throughout this blog, I do want to make one observation. That is, anyone can be sued for anything. Although truth is the ultimate defense in a libel and slander case, truth doesn’t prevent the suit from being filed. Defending such an action can be costly for both sides.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Re: #16 above: You said, “Higher crime than Monrovia in past years, fewer officers than Monrovia in past years.” What years are those?
What are the year-by-year statistics for violent crime over the last five years? And, what is the percentage difference as it relates to the number of officers on the street?
BTW, #11, I do not work for city hall, nor do I reside in Monrovia. I’m self-employed in a non-government sector. I’m just intrigued by the tactics that the MPOA has employed, and thought about how the residents might feel having their community portrayed that way. I understand your argument that the city isn’t very desirable if the streets aren’t safe.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Laurel Thatcher Ulrich.. Any relation to the historian?
May 9th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Laurel: I think you cna find answers at www.monroviapoa.com. They have some fairly detailed information there.
I wonder if you’ve asked such detailed analysis of the City’s poverty claims.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Margaret: No, I just admire a woman who says, “Well behaved women rarely make history.”
May 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
There goes Parry in post #20. Always using the I word. I’ve done this and I’ve done that. I’ve made it better than it ever was before. By the way, this is Tom Adams, Scott Ochoa and company! He is wonderful, just ask him. Wait, you don’t need to ask, he will tell you.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Badboy, if you look, you’ll notice I was asked.
Why don’t you tell us a little about you? How long have you worked for Adams & Barnes Escrow?
May 9th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Truisms of the state of public employment. The value of public safety can never be questioned; it is to be the number 1 priority at all times. The veracity, honor, or true intentions of public safey officers must never be questioned; they are angels on earth that protect the citizenry and must be compensated at least as well as other public safety officers from areas around them (thus, making the compensation go up and up, regardless of the state of the “pocket book.” Any politician that doesn’t immediately bend to the will of the most powerful set of unions in the State, if not the country, does not support public safety, hates cops and kittens alike, and encourages the criminal element to terrorize the community.
Vallejo honored its fire and police employees to the tune of 75% of its general fund. Go Vallejo!
May 9th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Um……Vallejo just filed for bankruptcy earlier this week.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
It is entirely true that public safety unions can be too powerful. Case-and-point would be the prison guard’s union in this State.
I would, however, agree that public safety SHOULD be the highest priority at all times. I’m a limited goverment guy. I want the government doing only that which people generally cannot provide for themselves - eg, police and fire. Perhaps a bit more, but not much. And, they should do those thigns very well, with the best folks possible.
I want really extraordinary people carrying guns on the streets, not just any, say $15/hour security guard.
The problem I have with the City Council’s position is that there is a fundamental dishonesty to it. They insist on saying MPD officers are paid above average, when they are not. In an apples-to-apples comparison, an MPD pay check is almost always smaller as compared to an officer on a another department. MPD officers cost more, but that is a seperate issue - an important one, but a seperate one.
I posted an analogy before. If someone offers you a job at $10/hour, and puts $10 a day in a jar to give you a bonus at the end of the week, that’s $450 to you.
If someone else offers you the same job, but pays only $8/hour and puts $30 a day in the jar - but only gives you $50 from it and sends the rest to Sacramento - that’s $370 to you. Sure, you COST that employer more, but, really, what do you care? Money to Sacramento won’t pay the mortgage.
MPD cops are underpaid - their take home pay and reitrement pay is less than their counterparts. The City’s deception, number games and disingenuous approach to that issue makes the rest of their position suspect.
If they came out and said: “Yes, you are underpaid, but the well is dry and we can’t do anything about it,” then I’d take their position seriously.
But, when they jump up and down about spending $326 per Monrovian for policing, and it turns out this dispute works out to another $8, I really must wonder. Certainly, at some point there’s a nickel you can afford, and a nickel you can’t.
But when the City uses such bluster (which, I might add, has also been seen on the other side) to obfuscate, lie and deny, then it’s hard to regard any of their position is honest.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
“If someone else offers you the same job, but pays only $8/hour and puts $30 a day in the jar - but only gives you $50 from it and sends the rest to Sacramento - that’s $370 to you. Sure, you COST that employer more, but, really, what do you care? Money to Sacramento won’t pay the mortgage.”
Will the Union agree to abrogate the money being sent to Sacramento in order for the City to give the money directly to each officer?
Another thought, you indicate that MPD is “underpaid,” and in the same breath maintain that they are paid less than their counterparts. without even addressing whether this is accurate, isn’t their a built in bias for all police if the determining factor is how much “the joneses” are being paid? If the determining factor on whether a PD is being paid “appropriately” is what other PD’s are being paid, and all of the unions are represented by the same set of attorneys, or at the very least, the unions are sympathetic to each other’s needs, doesn’t the pay get artificially inflated? I mean, there will always be one department that makes less than the others–so they will say they are “underpaid”, and in order for a community to pay them “market”, pay raises will undoubtedly create another “underpaid” force, and round and round we go.
In other words, why is the “underpaid” determination tied so tightly to what other departments pay? As opposed to a set market share of the general fund. Or, god forbid, based on a stark look at the value of the service. I mean, last time I checked, most police officers are clearing close to 90k a year, work 3 days a week and can retire at 50, and because of the 3% at 50 end up getting most of that pay for the next 30 years of their life; long after they stopped patroling the streets.
Now, I’m not saying all politicians are angels, or that the Monrovia council is doing god’s work; but let’s at least admit that the economic deck is stacked heavily in the favor of police officers.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Mr. Parry, is it an issue of the city putting too much of the policeman’s pay into the CALPERS fund (the jar)thus, leaving them with less net?
May 9th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Also, would it be possible for the city and the police to become unified in an effort to question the way the CALPERS fund is managed?
May 9th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Don’t work there, never have, keep guessing. As for pers, just put them all on social security like the rest of us. Then they can get a lot more in their check. They will need to work until they are 60 but they will make more now. You know, I think I just hit on an answer. If the cops agree to social security they wont need to complain about pers. Then they will make more, take down their signs, fire their attorney and save what they are paying him. We all win! Yippie, we all win.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Bad Boy,
I like to extend to you the opportunity to show me how bad you really are. Why don’t we arrange a quite place to meet all alone? You can email me at ghstrydr164@monroviacitywatch.com
May 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Miss H-
The City pays the second most for police services (per capita) of any in the local area, but the officers are paid close to the bottom. The bulk of the difference goes to PERS because of risk-related calculations. Officers’ retirements are based on their pay checks, not PERS contributions. Thus the City pays more and gets less. That is all driven by PERS risk assessments and there is only a modest amount that could be done, if anything. And, right now, I don’t think the timbre of the situation lends itself to any cooperation.
Anony 30-
Addressing what I didn’t generally answer for you in my commets to Miss H…
—you said: “… isn’t their a built in bias for all police if the determining factor is how much “the joneses” are being paid? If the determining factor on whether a PD is being paid “appropriately” is what other PD’s are being paid, and all of the unions are represented by the same set of attorneys, or at the very least, the unions are sympathetic to each other’s needs, doesn’t the pay get artificially inflated?”
Two answers:
1) The Jonses drive the market. That’s just a fact. MPOA has provided a long list of officers who’ve gone to greener pastures. I know several who YEARS AGO came to MPD from other places because it was a better environment (a non-tangible that effect the market). That’s gone. Soon, so shall they be.
2) You are exactly right. Many POA’s in the area have “must be X” position on a salary survey contracts. Well, if more than one gets the same position (say, 4 departmetns on the same survey have a “must be top 3″ clause), then that will auto-inflate EVERYBODY’s salary. You couldn’t program an Excel model to accept it! Problem is, There’s the issue of #1. Do you want officers who “settle” for MPD because they couldn’t get hired anywhere that paid better?
It’s a severe issue that soon every City in the area - probably the state will have to face. It doesn’t negate te factor of #1.
—You said: “….In other words, why is the “underpaid” determination tied so tightly to what other departments pay? As opposed to a set market share of the general fund. Or, god forbid, based on a stark look at the value of the service.”
1) Because cities compete in a market. They buy labor services from cops. Cops can supply whatever city they want with that service. By logic, they’ll go to the highest bidder. Simple economics.
2) Stark value of the service? Depends on whether you’re the one who’s house will get burglarized next week, I suppose, doesn’t it. Or, reverse th equation. If I told you someone in your place of business WOULD get shot and possibly murdered in the next X time period, how much more would I have to pay you? I imagine Dan Verna would have billed a much higher rate for March 30 if he knew what was on tap for him that night.
— You said: “…I mean, last time I checked, most police officers are clearing close to 90k a year, work 3 days a week and can retire at 50, and because of the 3% at 50 end up getting most of that pay for the next 30 years of their life; long after they stopped patroling the streets.”
1) That’s hogwash. Look at the City’s own salary survey. Top-step officer at the highest-salaried deparment (Pasadena) takes home $6400 a month. By my math, that’s about $76k/yr, not 90k. And, that’s top-step, after a number of years on the job. They work the same number of hours as any other government employee, they just pack them into three days.
2) 3% at 50 is a very nice, very expensive perq. I wish I had it in my job. It’s going to be a huge financial challenge for years to come. But it is the market standard. Take that away, and what incentive do the cops have to stay? What incentive do new applicants have to come to Monrovia? By definition, pretty much everyone else would offer a better deal. There’s not much we can do about it.
—- you said: “…Now, I’m not saying all politicians are angels, or that the Monrovia council is doing god’s work; but let’s at least admit that the economic deck is stacked heavily in the favor of police officers.”
I don’t know about heavily. I would take a pay cut if I went into police work. Plus, there are reasons that’s the market. For one, cops have a much higher stress, suicide and premature death rate. For another, being a street cop past age 50 has its down sides - like chasing kids 1/3 your age.
Yes, in general, policing pays reasonably well. But, the fact is, you’re hiring guys to make multi-million dollar decisions (think police liability suits) on which lives depend. I don’t see you complainin that the deck is economic deck is stacked in favor of surgeons. To be sure, doctors have far more training and education. But, an incompetent police officer can have a far more profound effect on somone’s life than an incompetent podiatrist.
Thanks for a reasoned, rational dialogue!
May 9th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I am happy to say that I voted for all of the council people that represent our City and I stand behind my decision to vote for them. This is not blind loyalty, but rather an understanding that the way our representative govenment works. We have elected these people to do our bidding. We do not give them big stipends nor do we offer them huge stipend increases. I have never really participated in a blog and it really is interesting to see what the opinions of people are and how they are based. I wonder if more people participated in the community and were closer to ground zero would the opinions be the same. We form opinions based on what we know and hear and honestly i dont read a whole lot of information that is factually based. What I am reading is a whole lot of conjecture and a whole lot of venting. Get involved in your community as a whole. Don’t live in a microcosm that is your street. Every street in Monrovia has a speeding problem. Don’t think you are alone. Don’t spend everyone elses money solely for your own crusade. If you really wanted to make a difference fight for all of the Monrovia North/South streets. You ask me for a meeting i think you need more time to understand what you are looking for. A meeting with me does not get you what you want. You want to vent on your blog and stir up emotion. I am a small piece of an runaway train. Get involved in your community.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Mr. Parry: Do you work for the POA attorney. You sure have a leaning towards giving away My taxes to a department that is paid well and has been given real substantive pay raise offers.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Concerned Monrovian ,
Why don’t you share what you do for your community with us?
May 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I am very involved.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
After your comment #34 to “bad boy” I am not sure that I want you to know any more about me. Seems like you want to take it to another level.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Concerned Monrovian ,
Weak excuse.
You just sound like a lot of empty words to me. I never bother anyone you doesn’t bother me.
May 9th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Tell us more about yourself Ghost rider. I am not sure that you are basing you opinion on anything other than hearsay.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
At the end of this discouse there is nothing that will change other than there will be more polarity in the community. I propose that the POA has gone overboard in their tactics and has and is damaging my community. I don’t believe that any of the POA members live in my community but they sure take pleasure in bashing it. The end result is that we will have a community that will not be happy with the increase in costs and a POA that is not happy that the community does not support their demands. One thing we will have is a very happy and more enriched attorney that will move on to the next city to spread his venom.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Well, this has been an interesting experience but there are other thing that I must attend to like a life. I am not sure how this blog and its bloviating helps anybody but there sure is a whole lot of pent up fury in this group. Learn to smell the roses. grab onto each moment and savor it. Don’t do anything to anyone that you would not want done to yourself. Live long and Prosper.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Sorry, my spelling of discourse was off (should have taken thatt typing classs).
May 9th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
“We have elected these people to do our bidding.” I think that is exactly the point being raised here.
Regardless if you believe the police deserve a raise, or not, the judgement and conduct displayed by our elected officials in handling these negotiations should give rise for concern to all in the community.
Have the elected officials continued to negotiate with the police in good faith…or have they shown a total disregard by not even attending scheduled negotiation conferences instead sending in a secretary.
Have they said to the officers, hey we can’t give you more money but we want to support you in everyway possible that we can…..or have they, like small children, attempted to exert their power by witholding resources, changing schedules, witholding internal promotions, etc.
Have they come out and praised our officers for their service, such as during the recent fires….or have instead ignored the officers efforts, including not even offering public praise for the recently wounded officer.
It really isn’t about the money, it is about the total lack of leadership as well as judgement displayed by our elected officials. It’s great that they are “involved” in their community, but in all candor that just doesn’t cut it. I want someone with leadership skills who knows how to solve problems not make them worse.
May 10th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Not sure if this topic is somewhere else, but as of tonight the “city” is no longer using the MPD at our wonderful (rolling eyes) streetfair. Rest assure neither one of my daughters will be hanging around there on a Friday night.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Me thinks Parry’s firm is paid by the union to do all of this. Let all who are unhappy go in peace and find their happiness. If it is not in Monrovia, go in peace and find it. No one should remain in Monrovia unhappy. In life people come and people go. If you look at the numbers, more of the police have been fired for being bad employees than have left for more pay. The real question is how many of the police were fired just before they went to jail for breaking the law? A little secret they don’t like to talk about.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:55 am
Yeah, one of the new “officers” practically bowled me and my toddler over in a rush to get somewhere last night. Very professional.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Monroman:
Thank you for the news. My hubby has a firm?! And it’s getting paid by the union?!
I need to go have a talk with him, because I am going shopping if that’s the case.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:41 am
YHIHF….if MPD is not patrolling who is? I’ve seen enough gang fights over the years on the perimeters to know security is needed. What can you get me? I’m easy to find and I need information.
I have teens who I keep close tabs on and they don’t do Friday night down there without us. Certainly they are not to be near 4th Dimension when the gang bangers roll into town for a night of partying starting around 9PM.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Frazgo, yes i was told yesterday by the same person that gives me the addy’s for the signs…actually you have spoke to him too. I will pop over on your sight/blog and find an email address and we can chat.
PS. I didn’t ask who would be there now but i’m guessing a “security” company…ex hubby used to work for Post years ago and believe you me, NO WAY is that any type of person i want walking the streets “PROTECTING” me and my family.
May 10th, 2008 at 10:25 am
wow thanks.
May 10th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
PS. Nothing against the ex hubby, i am just thinking of some of these private security companies training.
May 10th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Post #50, here is how it goes;
Tax Payers pay the police
Dues go from police to the union
Union pays their attorney Lackie & Dammeier
Union attorney Lackie & Dammeier pays CCG, a P.R. Firm
CCG pays Parry for the “Public Relations” work.
The bottom line is our tax dollars eventually end up in Parry’s pocket to keep stirring up Monrovia.
Think about it?
May 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
MonroMan-
There’s just a couple of problems with your theory. 1) CCG is not a PR firm, it is an IR firm. MPOA is neither publicly traded nor an investment bank. CCG’S skills would be of limited value.
2) I haven’t been employed by CCG for the best part of 2 months.
Nice try. Perhaps you should get to know me before you tell such fascinating tales. But, I guess you were too busy conjuring up fiction to get to Coffee Bean this morning.
May 10th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Talk about that “secret” Monroman. Post your facts. Joe Friday has uncovered some facts and as truthful people know any accurate investigation takes time. Fact is a foreign word to you but read on and attempt to learn.
Joe Friday here. My investigation came up with real facts because that’s my job folks, just the facts. Monroman and Bad Boy aka Hay are just common big mouths. Their jealousy of the men and women in blue is easy to see. Monroman is a liar and not a very good one.
More officers have been fired than left for other departments with more pay? Joe Friday checked that out. Would you like to go name for name Monroman? Can you back up those lying words of yours?
At least two “fired” officers took money from the city, or “another source” via the lawsuit route. Those firings were not good ones. I only found one officer that went to jail and that was many years ago. I was told he resigned before being fired. The council and people like Monroman have lowered this dispute to disgraceful personal attacks and should be run out of town.
If officers were fired just before they went to jail then Monroman should be willing to post their names and where they did their time. Monroman should also post where he obtained these facts from. Confidential city files leaked by a council friend with partial facts? Joe Friday deals with only the facts. I’m sure those about to be fired officers who went to jail will all thank Monroman. They will call him on their way to the bank with a new paycheck from the city when they see their name in print. Name just one officer who was fired and then went to jail Monroman.
Last week the city manager’s report showed there had been a fight at the family festival. His facts not mine. I just report them, I’m Joe Friday. Now that overtime assignment has been stopped. Very wise move to keep your kids away from the festival. I’m not sure the security there is very effective and can handle what an officer can handle. Maybe Monroman will provide his service as a guard down there. Pay him $15 an hour and see if he takes the job.
The PERS rate will continue to go up due to the actions of the city council and mayor who has said they are ok with Monrovia PD being a training ground. The turnover of officers that goes as high as this department guarantees that. Monroman aka Bad Boy aka Hay should look up how the PERS actuarials are done and tell the truth. That will not happen, that is why Joe Friday is here.
It has been proved that Bad Boy/Hay and Monroman are big mouths with no facts. They have no facts to back them up. They are council plants that are here to disrupt. Hay/Bad Boy seems to be doing this from the business office of a city councilman who came up with the punitive measures directed at union busting.
If the posted facts based on Mr. Parry’s investigation are true, a seasoned investigator like Joe Friday would have to conclude that the posts made by these people have the approval of Councilman Adams. I’m sure they have been brought to his attention by now but I have not read one word that he’s said addressing that issue. Not one word in print on how he feels about those posts.
Of course Councilman Adams hasn’t mentioned his brother is a former Monrovia police officer either has he? Joe Friday signing off.
Just The Facts.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Joe Friday says it all! Kudos Joe!
The attack on Mr. Parry is no surprise in Monrovia. This town has been notorious for attacking anyone who disagrees with those who have appointed themselves all powerful and their minions carry out their directives. Although many of them may have started out with all good intentions, the advantages of political power grew to enticing and clouded their integrity (giving them the benefit of the doubt). Fortunately for them, unfortunately for the citizens; there was/is plenty to go around for those at the top and even some left over for their minions and the story goes on.
First they find the money pockets (redevelopment), then they form the silent “board of directors”, calling themselves Mayor and City Council; then the president/CEO…they call him City Manager. So much money, so little time…unless…YES they hired a hit man, another little man who wields a sharp pen and called him Public Information Officer. One who will resort to anything, even out right lies! (Proof of which I have seen in writing!)
As long as they keep the little people in the dark and in their place, everyone is happy! Just don’t EVER step out of line because they are willing to do anything to destroy those who think! I have watched many, many wonderful people destroyed, mangled, or disheartened enough to crawl back into their spot and stay or even just leave our fair city. How sad?!
Now these self-proclaimed kings are claiming that an entire police department is lying, cheating and generally out of line? These are the Officers who have not only protected their kingdom and collected from the peasants by ticketing them when they speed along? These are the same Officers that receive accolades and smiles as they write their tickets or when they arrest those who disturb the tranquility in their domain, placing their own lives on the line?
Come on people, wake up! How can you complain about your property values when a sign goes up telling the truth? Just because those in power say it isn’t so, doesn’t make it true! Crime has always been a part of Monrovia, but in the past we have had Officers that knew the lay of the land. They knew who was doing what and who to watch. And they knew they had enough back up to keep a handle on crime. Is it fair to place property values above human suffering and even lives?
Monrovia Officers, along with many Citizens have been telling us for years that there are problems internally and externally. How many more have to die before we look at reality?
Just remember, If they are doing it to one of us, they are doing it to all of us! And YES, when they want what you have, they will come after you…both sets of criminals!
Think about it!
By the way…Adams may not be pushing the buttons on the computer (which I am not convinced that he is not), but one of his minions are and I’ve heard rumors that his initials are C.S., works for a title company with initials of C.T., gets most (if not all)the title policies for the City, works from A&B and will do or say anything to kiss up!
May 10th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
“Property Values” is just monopoly money. If you aren’t trying to sell it means nothing.
Luckily when there is a run up like we had the last few years our “property value” stays the same for tax purposes. Does anyone realize that outside of CA most people fret increased property values as their property tax goes up even higher with the new value.
Back on point. I think the city forgot that as far as the average citizen goes, if the streets are safe and our tax dollars are paying to keep the police, fire and schools operating smoothly no one looks at what is going on.
We have watched a very large spike in crime last year. This year is trending up even after you remove the gang wars earlier this year. That is why peole are paying attention and don’t by the staffing and salary shell game.
I do have to say as much as I support our officers and making sure they get a fair deal I can’t say I agree with them stooping to the same dirty tricks the city has. Of course I’m not consulted but more people would get on board faster if it was only city hall having the tantrum in their sand box.
Pay them fairly. Staff them well and get crime back under control. That is all I ask.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Frazgo,
I would love to agree with you fully on this one, as I do most often, however, this has been the only time that I have seen eyes opening in a long, long time. I always believe that respectful communication is best, but unfortunately you have to be awake to hear. I think it has motivated people to think and begin to speak out, which is another thing that has not happened in a very long time in Monrovia.
It is not majority that needed to get the message, the ones that aren’t on the “inside”. I think that when the “shock value” wears off, people will begin to look for answers of resolution which is where we want to be.
Unfortunately, I am not sure that this issue (which is not just about the police negotiations) would have come through without a scream. This city needs to wake up and shake the status quo before we lose the true value of Monrovia.
By the way, thank you for the constant insight!
May 10th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Talking about property taxes,Frazgo….I got a call from a good buddy in Texas (Dallas county).
His property values went down as much as 40%.
His taxes get lowered accordingly. Then they went up and he was taxed accordingly, now they are in the tank again and he is expecting a big cut.
Is it the same in Calif.? Does anyone know how that works?
I know when we bought our home in Sierra Madre in 1992, property values when down steadily until the late 90’s. Our property taxes decreased, but not as much as I thought they would, then when values went way up……our taxes went up higher than I thought they should.
My question is….is the State of Calif. fair? In regards to property taxes?
This may sound naive, but hey, I’m naive, but I would like to know.
Thanks in advance to anyone who knows.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Wow, my brothers-in-law in Houston have never talked about a property tax reduction.
My brother in St Louis and my folks in Las Vegas have never had a property tax reduction in down market years.
Relatives in MN on occassion petition for reassessment in down markets but they usually don’t win.
From what I understand your assessment stays with you as long as you own the house. It can get reassessed if you remodel, refinance but otherwise your rate stays the same.
The exception is voted indebtedness through bonds which still need a 2/3 majority to pass. When it passes then you can get an increase in your property tax. My taxes have gone up a whole $500 in 14 years, 3X because of bonds we approved and another for a small addition on the garage.
Not bad considering my brothers-in-law in TX say they plan on 10% increases every year.
SWKS we do need to get the salary negotiations onto more civil terms and get it behind us. I agree now that people are alert to what is going on they want it fixed.
Thanks SWKS…do I know you? IF so drop me a note.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I’m going to check back on my records and talk to my tax lady.
I’m pretty sure our taxes dropped when the value of our home dropped 20%, this was in the mid nineties. They may not have dropped much, our taxes have DOUBLED since 1992.
May 11th, 2008 at 10:02 am
If you believe that the value of your home has declined you can contact the county tax assessor. As I recall they have a form that you can fill out where you provide sale comparables in your neighborhood to support your assertion that your property value has dropped, thus your property taxes should be decreased.
If you look at the assessed value of your home, which is what your property tax is based upon, it is not always in line with actual market value. I have found that in many cases the assessed value of homes is significantly lower than the current market value.
May 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Thanks for the information, Laurel T. U.
Interesting.
I guess it really doesn’t matter much, because no matter what…..NO MATTER WHAT…..we will all have to pay whatever the State tells us we owe. SIGH
May 12th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Just one final comment on this response:
“Because cities compete in a market. They buy labor services from cops. Cops can supply whatever city they want with that service. By logic, they’ll go to the highest bidder. Simple economics.”
This is slightly inaccurate. Because of the strength of public employment labor unions, the civil service system, and the POBAR, it is neither “simple” economics or a true “market.” yes, cities compete for employees–but the crappy surgeon that makes a poor decision can get canned or disciplined by his/her employer much more easily than a public employee, especially a police officer.
The reality is when one enters “public service” it shouldn’t be to get paid. You can make a living, but in the end, working serving a community is supposed to be about more than money.
And POU’s salary surveys are inherently suspect; Police officers make signficantly more money than what their “salary” is, when you count over time, uniform/equipment allowances, medical benefits that can be cashed out and other “benefits” that aren’t reflected in their salary surveys.
Police officers do a valuable job. A job I tip my hat off to them for doing. It is truly one of the most important services the government provides its citizenry. But the state of labor negotiations in California has gotten a little bit out of hand. And every public employee union has had a large part in creating the present situation.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Anony 67-
I completely agree with you in principal, and largely in practice. The limit of the latter being reality.
We can’t begrudge anyone taking the best opportunity. If the best cops coming out of the academy or lateralling from other departments will seek the best pay, benefits and ambiance, then Monrovia competes for their services. We’d better strengthen the first two, because the current council doesn’t seem to care about the last.